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	<title>Comments on: Movie Review: Star Trek, or, &#8220;Make It Not So.&#8221;</title>
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		<title>By: Alex</title>
		<link>http://theculturebeat.com/2009/05/14/movie-review-star-trek-or-make-it-not-so/#comment-2454</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Alex]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 16 May 2009 13:05:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theculturebeat.com/?p=866#comment-2454</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Reply to Emil&#039;s most recent comment:
Thanks for the screenwriter&#039;s interview clip--it sheds light on their thinking but I wish they had made it clear in the movie itself, which gave the clear indication that is erased.  All we&#039;re told in the script is that in the old history, Kirk new his father--but now that never happened thanks to Nero&#039;s breaking into that moment in history.   I think this multiple universes concept, whether or not it&#039;s rooted in real science, is a pretty messy idea that may serve niche marketing strategies better than dramatic storytelling.  But again, if they think the new movie is simply an alternate universe of new continuity, they should have said so--it&#039;s certainly not unprecedented but maybe they thought it would undermine the strength of their new narrative--because having multiple versions of something lessens the value of the once unique original, or current one.  But I certainly prefer alternate versions of continuity to the more apparent displacing of the old by the new.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Reply to Emil&#8217;s most recent comment:<br />
Thanks for the screenwriter&#8217;s interview clip&#8211;it sheds light on their thinking but I wish they had made it clear in the movie itself, which gave the clear indication that is erased.  All we&#8217;re told in the script is that in the old history, Kirk new his father&#8211;but now that never happened thanks to Nero&#8217;s breaking into that moment in history.   I think this multiple universes concept, whether or not it&#8217;s rooted in real science, is a pretty messy idea that may serve niche marketing strategies better than dramatic storytelling.  But again, if they think the new movie is simply an alternate universe of new continuity, they should have said so&#8211;it&#8217;s certainly not unprecedented but maybe they thought it would undermine the strength of their new narrative&#8211;because having multiple versions of something lessens the value of the once unique original, or current one.  But I certainly prefer alternate versions of continuity to the more apparent displacing of the old by the new.</p>
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		<title>By: Emil P</title>
		<link>http://theculturebeat.com/2009/05/14/movie-review-star-trek-or-make-it-not-so/#comment-2452</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Emil P]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 15 May 2009 17:33:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theculturebeat.com/?p=866#comment-2452</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Alex, even though I&#039;ve been a loyal comic book reader since I could read, and I&#039;ve even worked as a professional comic book artist in recent years, I confess I&#039;m not enthusiastic enough about the products (which alas is what they are now) of the &quot;Big Two&quot; to go for the recent spate of &quot;event&quot; comics. It&#039;s really just a gimmick to have readers buy many alternate covers of each uninspired issue. And they don&#039;t seem to be getting tired of it yet (the publishers, that is). Actually, it&#039;s one of the many symptoms of how &quot;mainstream&quot; comics are becoming more and more insular and falling in on themselves like a black hole as the readership dwindles. After all, how could any new readers possibly decode the infinite nonsensical tangles of 40 or more years of utterly nonsensical back story and continuity? If you&#039;re not in the club already, that sucks for you. Of course there are many, many great comics to choose from from beyond the Big Two these days, but unfortunately they&#039;ve made a heroic effort to destroy competition through unsavory practices (i.e. flooding the shelves with reprints, alternate covers, etc), and most of what that&#039;s doing is killing comics in general. They&#039;re shooting themselves in the foot as well by killing comics that can actually attract new readers to the medium. 

But never mind that, it&#039;s a whole other axe to grind. 

It&#039;s funny you should mention DC&#039;s attempt to deal with that problem of lengthy tangled continuity. I think it&#039;s only fair to acknowledge that the makers of the new Star Trek have had that very same problem to deal with. To us as long-time fans it doesn&#039;t seem like a problem, but for brand-new viewers, it&#039;s fairly daunting. After all, to catch up with all previous Star Trek starting from zero, one would have to watch not only the 10 existing movies, but 716 episodes of the various TV series! That&#039;s child&#039;s play compared to trying to catch up on the X-men or Superman or Batman, sure, but it&#039;s still quite a hefty amount of baggage. Now of course, if recent Star Trek movies had been much, much better, that wouldn&#039;t have been so much of an issue. Fans of The Next Generation (like myself) were dealt a truly harsh blow with the horrifying spectacle of uncaring blah that was Nemesis, the tenth movie. And Insurrection was pretty meh, but it suddenly looks great compared to Nemesis... At least the original generation got a nice sendoff in Star Trek VI. The Next Generation got a kick in the face with Nemesis. 

So, having thoroughly botched so much with a less-than-token effort in recent times (through the old calculation that fans are desperate, they&#039;ll probably buy anything, which turned out not to be quite so true), they basically had to try and attract all-new, non-disgruntled viewers. And the only way to do that is to unburden them of trying to catch up on a lengthy and complicated continuity.

All that said, it is actually the official position of the screenwriters that this new Star Trek universe is indeed an Alternate time line, not a wipeout. Here is an exchange from an interview with screenwriter Alberto Orci (who incidentally respected TNG more in the Countdown comic prequel to the new movie more than Paramount did in Nemesis);

*******************************************

Q: The history of Kirk&#039;s predecessor, Capt. Christopher Pike (played by Bruce Greenwood) is also rewritten. Will that completely change his history as known to &quot;Trek&quot; fans?

A: Pike&#039;s history is not completely different now, but it has certainly changed significantly, and that&#039;s an example of our approach to time travel. Rather than stick to the familiar Einsteinian approach, our story is inspired by more current thinking in theoretical physics.

Q: You&#039;re referring to the increasingly popular &quot;many worlds&quot; theory about the possible structure of the space-time continuum.

A: Exactly, and we chose that approach not only because it&#039;s the most up-to-date speculation about time travel, but in terms of telling a time-travel story it inherently preserves the established events of &quot;Star Trek&quot; in an alternate reality, and that allows breathing room between those stories and what we&#039;re doing now. It&#039;s also really fun for us, as writers, because &quot;Star Trek&quot; got us into science and now science is helping us to preserve &quot;Star Trek,&quot; which is pretty amazing when you think about it.


********************************************

So there you have it. While I don&#039;t disagree with what Stephanie said, this evolution was indeed reached through a remorseless logic that is hard to argue with, from a money-making product standpoint. And Alex, you are absolutely right that there is no safe retirement for narrative when money-making comes calling. After all, the avalanche of 80s-plundering movies coming up is ample proof of that.

But again, as far as Star Trek Prime (as you notably put it) goes, novelizations and comics remain :-)

In conclusion, my apologies about making you endure the horror of my relentless run-on sentence habit.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Alex, even though I&#8217;ve been a loyal comic book reader since I could read, and I&#8217;ve even worked as a professional comic book artist in recent years, I confess I&#8217;m not enthusiastic enough about the products (which alas is what they are now) of the &#8220;Big Two&#8221; to go for the recent spate of &#8220;event&#8221; comics. It&#8217;s really just a gimmick to have readers buy many alternate covers of each uninspired issue. And they don&#8217;t seem to be getting tired of it yet (the publishers, that is). Actually, it&#8217;s one of the many symptoms of how &#8220;mainstream&#8221; comics are becoming more and more insular and falling in on themselves like a black hole as the readership dwindles. After all, how could any new readers possibly decode the infinite nonsensical tangles of 40 or more years of utterly nonsensical back story and continuity? If you&#8217;re not in the club already, that sucks for you. Of course there are many, many great comics to choose from from beyond the Big Two these days, but unfortunately they&#8217;ve made a heroic effort to destroy competition through unsavory practices (i.e. flooding the shelves with reprints, alternate covers, etc), and most of what that&#8217;s doing is killing comics in general. They&#8217;re shooting themselves in the foot as well by killing comics that can actually attract new readers to the medium. </p>
<p>But never mind that, it&#8217;s a whole other axe to grind. </p>
<p>It&#8217;s funny you should mention DC&#8217;s attempt to deal with that problem of lengthy tangled continuity. I think it&#8217;s only fair to acknowledge that the makers of the new Star Trek have had that very same problem to deal with. To us as long-time fans it doesn&#8217;t seem like a problem, but for brand-new viewers, it&#8217;s fairly daunting. After all, to catch up with all previous Star Trek starting from zero, one would have to watch not only the 10 existing movies, but 716 episodes of the various TV series! That&#8217;s child&#8217;s play compared to trying to catch up on the X-men or Superman or Batman, sure, but it&#8217;s still quite a hefty amount of baggage. Now of course, if recent Star Trek movies had been much, much better, that wouldn&#8217;t have been so much of an issue. Fans of The Next Generation (like myself) were dealt a truly harsh blow with the horrifying spectacle of uncaring blah that was Nemesis, the tenth movie. And Insurrection was pretty meh, but it suddenly looks great compared to Nemesis&#8230; At least the original generation got a nice sendoff in Star Trek VI. The Next Generation got a kick in the face with Nemesis. </p>
<p>So, having thoroughly botched so much with a less-than-token effort in recent times (through the old calculation that fans are desperate, they&#8217;ll probably buy anything, which turned out not to be quite so true), they basically had to try and attract all-new, non-disgruntled viewers. And the only way to do that is to unburden them of trying to catch up on a lengthy and complicated continuity.</p>
<p>All that said, it is actually the official position of the screenwriters that this new Star Trek universe is indeed an Alternate time line, not a wipeout. Here is an exchange from an interview with screenwriter Alberto Orci (who incidentally respected TNG more in the Countdown comic prequel to the new movie more than Paramount did in Nemesis);</p>
<p>*******************************************</p>
<p>Q: The history of Kirk&#8217;s predecessor, Capt. Christopher Pike (played by Bruce Greenwood) is also rewritten. Will that completely change his history as known to &#8220;Trek&#8221; fans?</p>
<p>A: Pike&#8217;s history is not completely different now, but it has certainly changed significantly, and that&#8217;s an example of our approach to time travel. Rather than stick to the familiar Einsteinian approach, our story is inspired by more current thinking in theoretical physics.</p>
<p>Q: You&#8217;re referring to the increasingly popular &#8220;many worlds&#8221; theory about the possible structure of the space-time continuum.</p>
<p>A: Exactly, and we chose that approach not only because it&#8217;s the most up-to-date speculation about time travel, but in terms of telling a time-travel story it inherently preserves the established events of &#8220;Star Trek&#8221; in an alternate reality, and that allows breathing room between those stories and what we&#8217;re doing now. It&#8217;s also really fun for us, as writers, because &#8220;Star Trek&#8221; got us into science and now science is helping us to preserve &#8220;Star Trek,&#8221; which is pretty amazing when you think about it.</p>
<p>********************************************</p>
<p>So there you have it. While I don&#8217;t disagree with what Stephanie said, this evolution was indeed reached through a remorseless logic that is hard to argue with, from a money-making product standpoint. And Alex, you are absolutely right that there is no safe retirement for narrative when money-making comes calling. After all, the avalanche of 80s-plundering movies coming up is ample proof of that.</p>
<p>But again, as far as Star Trek Prime (as you notably put it) goes, novelizations and comics remain <img src='http://s0.wp.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>In conclusion, my apologies about making you endure the horror of my relentless run-on sentence habit.</p>
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		<title>By: Alex</title>
		<link>http://theculturebeat.com/2009/05/14/movie-review-star-trek-or-make-it-not-so/#comment-2450</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Alex]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 15 May 2009 12:28:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theculturebeat.com/?p=866#comment-2450</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Yes, Stephanie, our selective retention was on my mind as I wrote this--I am really surprised that I haven&#039;t yet come across a similar reaction to the setting aside of the original stories--those who have expressed any problems with changes have been criticized by one of the chief beneficiaries of fandom, Leonard Nimoy as anal losers stuck in the past.  I&#039;m not against change itself--it&#039;s the cavalier disgarding of the inconvenient prior that is offensive.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes, Stephanie, our selective retention was on my mind as I wrote this&#8211;I am really surprised that I haven&#8217;t yet come across a similar reaction to the setting aside of the original stories&#8211;those who have expressed any problems with changes have been criticized by one of the chief beneficiaries of fandom, Leonard Nimoy as anal losers stuck in the past.  I&#8217;m not against change itself&#8211;it&#8217;s the cavalier disgarding of the inconvenient prior that is offensive.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Alex</title>
		<link>http://theculturebeat.com/2009/05/14/movie-review-star-trek-or-make-it-not-so/#comment-2449</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Alex]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 15 May 2009 12:22:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theculturebeat.com/?p=866#comment-2449</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Thanks for you thoughtful comments, Emil.  Yes, continuity is a minefield of creative, commercial and aesthetic factors, to say the least.  In a modern (or post-modern) era of corporate level decision-making by publicly held companies, prior narratives exist, like long-time employees, on a razor&#039;s edge of security--that is, there is none.  

When DC decided in the 80&#039;s to clean up their cluttered histories and myriad characters in Crisis on Infinite Earths, it was a practical strategy to simplify and rectify the confusing and hard-to-write for maze of decades of company titles.  After creatively unifying their various storylines, they left the &quot;original&quot; Superman and Lois Lane in a private little world apart from the new single, sort of a sweet parting gift for years of faithful service, rather than Xing them out of existence or killing them off.  But of course, that wasn&#039;t the end, if you know of the travesty of Infinite Crisis where they were made the starting point of a botched cosmic catastrophe.  There is no safe retirement in popular culture narratives when the editors and executives come calling.

Heck, Conan-Doyle couldn&#039;t even kill off his own creation when fans outraged over Sherlock Holmes&#039; death at Reichenbach Falls was reversed and a less inspired version character returned for many years afterward to please his public.  So sometimes the public gets what it wants, more or less,  or, in my case, has to settle with memories of Star Trek Prime.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for you thoughtful comments, Emil.  Yes, continuity is a minefield of creative, commercial and aesthetic factors, to say the least.  In a modern (or post-modern) era of corporate level decision-making by publicly held companies, prior narratives exist, like long-time employees, on a razor&#8217;s edge of security&#8211;that is, there is none.  </p>
<p>When DC decided in the 80&#8242;s to clean up their cluttered histories and myriad characters in Crisis on Infinite Earths, it was a practical strategy to simplify and rectify the confusing and hard-to-write for maze of decades of company titles.  After creatively unifying their various storylines, they left the &#8220;original&#8221; Superman and Lois Lane in a private little world apart from the new single, sort of a sweet parting gift for years of faithful service, rather than Xing them out of existence or killing them off.  But of course, that wasn&#8217;t the end, if you know of the travesty of Infinite Crisis where they were made the starting point of a botched cosmic catastrophe.  There is no safe retirement in popular culture narratives when the editors and executives come calling.</p>
<p>Heck, Conan-Doyle couldn&#8217;t even kill off his own creation when fans outraged over Sherlock Holmes&#8217; death at Reichenbach Falls was reversed and a less inspired version character returned for many years afterward to please his public.  So sometimes the public gets what it wants, more or less,  or, in my case, has to settle with memories of Star Trek Prime.</p>
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		<title>By: stephanie b</title>
		<link>http://theculturebeat.com/2009/05/14/movie-review-star-trek-or-make-it-not-so/#comment-2448</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[stephanie b]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 15 May 2009 08:15:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theculturebeat.com/?p=866#comment-2448</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Your issue with the film is indicative of all that is going on in our society, is it not? Who needs a memory when we have 16 places to point and click to find the names, photos, and information that we value most?  The less we use our memory, the less we value we collectively place on it. Seems the producers of the new Star Trek are simply capitalizing on the trend.  Sad.  Your review was thoughtful and informative.  I will see the movie! Thanks, ALex]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Your issue with the film is indicative of all that is going on in our society, is it not? Who needs a memory when we have 16 places to point and click to find the names, photos, and information that we value most?  The less we use our memory, the less we value we collectively place on it. Seems the producers of the new Star Trek are simply capitalizing on the trend.  Sad.  Your review was thoughtful and informative.  I will see the movie! Thanks, ALex</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Emil P</title>
		<link>http://theculturebeat.com/2009/05/14/movie-review-star-trek-or-make-it-not-so/#comment-2446</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Emil P]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 14 May 2009 17:26:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theculturebeat.com/?p=866#comment-2446</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[It&#039;s really best to enjoy the new Star Trek with the understanding that there is Star Trek as we knew it, and then there is this new, other Star Trek. If Paramounts manifold random decisions about what they&#039;ve done with Star Trek were a reason enough to despair, we&#039;d have all locked ourselves in the basement decades ago (insert jokes about basement-dwelling fans here). 

Just like any fandom, fans have chosen what to acknowledge and appreciate from the &quot;official&quot; canon they&#039;ve been given, and what not to. In other words, they&#039;ve chosen to customize their experience in a way that they found most enjoyable, which is only right. Paramount may not consider novelizations and comics &quot;canon&quot;, but really, the distinction is absurd to make. Fiction is fiction, and the kind written on pages is certainly &quot;official&quot; enough. There is nothing stopping one from deciding their preference for how they imagine the stories continue. For example, many (myself included), greatly enjoyed John Ford&#039;s version of Klingon culture from &quot;The Final Reflection&quot; (much of which was in fact eventually co-opted in &quot;official canon&quot;). Then of course there is the whole business of Klingon ridges. The series Enterprise (which certainly massively overwrote much of continuity, if you believe in &quot;canon&quot; to that extent) had a decent explanation of it. But the great graphic novel Debt of Honor (which came years earlier) has a much better version of the story, and features the return of Dr. Carol Marcus to boot as well. 

Star Wars fans have had to reconcile themselves to the abominations that are the Prequel movies, which among many, many other flaws, show that merit in the galaxy is all about eugenics and biological superiority (controlling the Force is suddenly based on &quot;midichlorians&quot;, which you must be born with, otherwise tough luck). Can you imagine, Star Trek suddenly being retroactively painted in a way that implies it&#039;s all about being born a genetically superior ubermensch? Well, Lucas did it to Star Wars fans. And he didn&#039;t make it an alternate universe. He made it part of the very same timeline.

Canon is a tricky thing to latch on to. The studios themselves have only a cursory belief in it. We could go on for pages listing all the contradictions in official canon. 

Another good example of selective memory is the Alien series of movies. Alien &amp; Aliens were fine works. Alien 3 &amp; 4 were utter abominations (more so Alien 4). There are still plenty of fans out there who enjoy the franchise while completely ignoring the disagreeable elements.Interestingly enough, once again comics came to the rescue - Dark Horse has done some great work continuing the stories, any number of which would have made for a better third and fourth movie than were actually made. 

The bottom line is that although the new movie represents a new, other Trek, it doesn&#039;t wipe anything out. The existing continuity wasn&#039;t nullified, it simply branched out. After all, every major historical event (and even relatively minor decision) creates a new time line. Traveling in time doesn&#039;t erase and re-write, it takes the other fork in the road. 

And if you still need proof the existing Star Trek continues, you need go no further than the bookstore. Random arbiters of &quot;canon&quot; may disagree, but most of us know better.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s really best to enjoy the new Star Trek with the understanding that there is Star Trek as we knew it, and then there is this new, other Star Trek. If Paramounts manifold random decisions about what they&#8217;ve done with Star Trek were a reason enough to despair, we&#8217;d have all locked ourselves in the basement decades ago (insert jokes about basement-dwelling fans here). </p>
<p>Just like any fandom, fans have chosen what to acknowledge and appreciate from the &#8220;official&#8221; canon they&#8217;ve been given, and what not to. In other words, they&#8217;ve chosen to customize their experience in a way that they found most enjoyable, which is only right. Paramount may not consider novelizations and comics &#8220;canon&#8221;, but really, the distinction is absurd to make. Fiction is fiction, and the kind written on pages is certainly &#8220;official&#8221; enough. There is nothing stopping one from deciding their preference for how they imagine the stories continue. For example, many (myself included), greatly enjoyed John Ford&#8217;s version of Klingon culture from &#8220;The Final Reflection&#8221; (much of which was in fact eventually co-opted in &#8220;official canon&#8221;). Then of course there is the whole business of Klingon ridges. The series Enterprise (which certainly massively overwrote much of continuity, if you believe in &#8220;canon&#8221; to that extent) had a decent explanation of it. But the great graphic novel Debt of Honor (which came years earlier) has a much better version of the story, and features the return of Dr. Carol Marcus to boot as well. </p>
<p>Star Wars fans have had to reconcile themselves to the abominations that are the Prequel movies, which among many, many other flaws, show that merit in the galaxy is all about eugenics and biological superiority (controlling the Force is suddenly based on &#8220;midichlorians&#8221;, which you must be born with, otherwise tough luck). Can you imagine, Star Trek suddenly being retroactively painted in a way that implies it&#8217;s all about being born a genetically superior ubermensch? Well, Lucas did it to Star Wars fans. And he didn&#8217;t make it an alternate universe. He made it part of the very same timeline.</p>
<p>Canon is a tricky thing to latch on to. The studios themselves have only a cursory belief in it. We could go on for pages listing all the contradictions in official canon. </p>
<p>Another good example of selective memory is the Alien series of movies. Alien &amp; Aliens were fine works. Alien 3 &amp; 4 were utter abominations (more so Alien 4). There are still plenty of fans out there who enjoy the franchise while completely ignoring the disagreeable elements.Interestingly enough, once again comics came to the rescue &#8211; Dark Horse has done some great work continuing the stories, any number of which would have made for a better third and fourth movie than were actually made. </p>
<p>The bottom line is that although the new movie represents a new, other Trek, it doesn&#8217;t wipe anything out. The existing continuity wasn&#8217;t nullified, it simply branched out. After all, every major historical event (and even relatively minor decision) creates a new time line. Traveling in time doesn&#8217;t erase and re-write, it takes the other fork in the road. </p>
<p>And if you still need proof the existing Star Trek continues, you need go no further than the bookstore. Random arbiters of &#8220;canon&#8221; may disagree, but most of us know better.</p>
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